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Reader Questions: Fees and Clients

Tag:criminal legal aid fees criminal legal aid | 32 Viewers| soloinontario 2008-11-11 00:54:55 Publish:

In response to this post where I disclosed in great detail my year-to-date expenses, a reader asks,

Bo, do you mind me asking what you've collected in fees? How many clients do you have?

With respect to clients, I have a dozen. About half of them are legal aid. I'm also doing a bunch of agency work for another lawyer, which is keeping me busy. Of course, I'm by no means booked and I'm always looking for new clients. Feel free to refer.

With respect to fees collected, there are two reasons that I'm uncomfortable giving you all a number. First, I was raised to never ask how much a person makes. Second, the number would be misleading. See, I had no idea what to charge for my services when I first started out. So, I accepted several clients on exceptionally small retainers. Besides not knowing what rates were appropriate, I've always had trouble asking people for money Particularly people of modest means. Several of my private retainers have ended up bringing in the same as or less than my legal aid retainers. As a result, I haven't made close to as much as I should -- or could -- have.

Fortunately, I've managed to adjust my attitude. I've consulted with my contemporaries and been given insight into what other lawyers charge by my clients. My new retainers will be more in line with the rest of the bar and, eventually, I'll be able to have the water turned back on.


Comments:

Good for you. Using logic, you have about 6 non legal aid clients, at least 4 of which brought in legal aid rates or less.

In my experience you should use the private retainers to supplement the legal aid, and not the other way around.

Have you ever asked for a discretionary increase from LAO? You may get the money one day, but you may die from dehydration first.


Comments:

Hey Bo. I've been reading your blog for some time, and much as I enjoy it, I feel like it's time I made an observation, which you are free to take seriously or to ignore entirely.

When I Google "bo arfai" the first hit I get is your professional site and the second is this blog. You've got to realize that even your average shoplifter, today, has access to the Internet. And I'm speaking only for myself here, but if I found this blog I'd never retain you as my defense lawyer. This blog is, more or less, about how you don't actually know much.

I've resisted pointing this out because as a law student I find your experiences very interesting. But this blog should always have been anonymous. Now, I feel invested enough in your experiences that I think you deserve to consider how much you may be shooting yourself in the foot.

It's up to you, but I figured you deserve the observation.


Comments:

I disagree with the previous comment. This blog is about Bo's experience as a new call setting up his own practice. The content of this blog gives no indication that Bo is an incompetent lawyer. It merely relates to the many obstacles solo practioners face when starting up shop. On the contrary, I would think this blog is good for business as prospective clients would be more inclined to retain Bo as they would seemingly benefit from an eager young lawyer willing to please, as well as very reasonable rates. Bo has set the tone of openess and honesty that clients find both refreshing as well as appealing.

Good work so far Bo and thanks for the figures. Although you don't provide specifics its pretty easy to get an idea of where your at in terms of revenue. All the best and keep up the good work! JB


Comments:

"Eager young lawyer" = inexperienced lawyer.


Comments:

This is something I've been thinking about, too. Actually, I thought about it when you posted the comment about your clients having good excuses or something (mouth surgery?) - what if that client read that?

I'm not suggesting that I would "never retain you" if I read this blog, but I do think the blog provides info beyond the usual client/lawyer boundaries (budget, marketing, etc.) It's fantastic for those of us who want to learn from your experience, but I agree it could add a weird element to your practice.

Is it possible to just anonymize the site? Those of us who have been following will know who you are, but other wouldn't.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, and I hope you do keep the site up and running - it's a pleasure to read.


Comments:

"Eager young lawyer" eh? To reply to 10:43am, I think you are blinded on this issue by your (presumptive) status as a law student or young lawyer yourself. Would you be in a hurry to hire an "eager young dentist" to approach your mouth with sharp, buzzing tools, or would you prefer to hire someone with a decade or two of experience?

The dentist example is actually biased against my point. With a dentist, doctor, and probably other professional examples, there may be some benefit to forming a long-term professional relationship with someone who'll be around for a while. In fact, my own dentist is rather young. But no one hires a criminal defense lawyer based on the assumption they'll need him around for several decades, or will be a frequent patron of his services.

I made my observation so Bo could think about it. But anyone who lacks so much ability to put themselves in their clients' perspective that you imagine they are glad to be your training clients needs to think again. No one, facing criminal consequences, wants an "eager young lawyer." They want the closest thing to Eddie Greenspan they can find. You aren't that and there's no sense pretending to be. But you also don't need to advertise the fact that you bought your first shredder last month.

I'm just saying.


Comments:

1204: Who do you think these prospective clients are?

Your belief that clients want the closest thing to Eddie Greenspan is correct but honestly, how many Eddie Greenspan type cases does Bo have coming his way now? I'm guessing not many at this point. I'm sure Bo himself would be hesitant to take on a high profile criminal case at this stage of his career.

Your original post proposed that this blog hinders Bo's reputation by exposing his lack of experience. I tend to think that clients would see this as an opportunity for getting more 'bang for the buck'. I could be wrong, only time will tell.

In regards to this blog being a hinderance to Bo, well I guess the best thing for Bo to do is maybe have a survey and find out what readers really think.
JB


Comments:

Of course, all of this is assuming that (potential) clients will Google his name. It's probably more likely that they'll find out about him in some other way (word of mouth, LAO, referral sites, etc.).

And while I don't mean to generalize to all offenders, from my experience a large percentage aren't what I would call "computer literate". Access to a computer isn't as common in this population either. Bo likely has data on how his clients find him, so he'd be able to shed more light on this issue, but it's possible that what you're debating has no relation to his clients anyways.


Comments:

A lot of these comments seem to be from people who haven't worked as criminal defence lawyers.

Having worked as a criminal lawyer, there are old, experienced lawyers who are lazy and who only want to plead clients out because it is easier and they can bill a lot. There are young, inexperienced lawyers who come to court prepared up the ying-yang, have researched the law and hold their own against crown counsel many years their senior.

Criminal clients are very clear and basic in what they want from their lawyer: they want you to return their calls, and they want you to be aggressive.

A young lawyer who does this will win clients over from older lawyers hand over fist.

I don't see anything wrong with how Bo is going about things.


Comments:

I don't understand why you don't look for an associate position at a crim shop for at least a year or two until you figure out what's going on and get some clients, especially since you didn't article in crim. It's got to be a lot easier than struggling to figure it out on your own. Why are you doing it the hard way?


Comments:

"No one, facing criminal consequences, wants an "eager young lawyer." They want the closest thing to Eddie Greenspan they can find. You aren't that and there's no sense pretending to be." says November 13, 2008 12:04 PM.

Perhaps the majority of Bo's clients are seeking competent legal representation for minor offenses (simple possession, DUI, shoplifting) and as such do not require the more expensive services of a Eddie Greenspan type lawyer.

This blog serves its purpose as a journal about the trials and tribulations associated with getting started as a solo practitioner shortly after being called to the bar. An honest lawyer - imagine that! Nothing Bo writes discusses specific cases.

Bo, keep up the good work for your clients and your readers.


Comments:

"I don't understand why you don't look for an associate position at a crim shop for at least a year or two..." says November 16, 2008 4:52 PM.

I am sure Bo has considered all the options before deciding upon embarking on a solo practitioner career. He might enjoy being his own boss and growing his own law practice without the politics found in some law firms. Having the freedom to pick and choose his clients might very well be of significant importance. Of course he can always join another firm in the future and I doubt his solo practice will be seen as a hindrance.

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